You’re American, I’m German. Both for the same reasons. Our parents had sex and about nine months later our mother gave birth to us at the right time and place.
Don’t get me wrong – I’m extremely happy not to be born in one of the many countries on earth, where people struggle to make a living, not knowing if they will be able to feed their family the next day. But can you really be proud of that? What was you contribution to your birth?
In Germany, “proud to be German” is a term that is nearly exclusive to neo-nazis and politicians who feel that they didn’t get enough airtime on national TV.
You want to be proud? Achieve something. Spend some time helping the less fortunate, be great at whatever it is you like to do. Try to live your life being a good man. That’s something to be proud of. But nationality?
You can be happy to be American. You can be really, really glad to be American. You are lucky.
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I couldn’t agree with you more. The very reason why I am soon moving back to Germany, where every person isn’t completely proud of their zero accomplishments in life. Nothing could be more annoying.
Yes, you are right Tobsy… 100%! Who the heck cares WHERE an individual is born. Be happy, be glad, hell…. be excited to be American, or German, French, or whatever. People get so wrapped up in where they live, because of where they’re parents gave birth… the important thing to remember… we’re all human, should be proud. I’m just damn lucky I’m in a somewhat stable country… slowly turning into a “sissy nation”.
Thanks again Tobsy, nice post.
Yes- if we could all stop belonging to a gang, religion, country or whatever, and lived simply as individuals with whatever abilities we inherited and make the best of it to live a good life and enrich it for ourselves, family and others, then things would only get better. A Country is a geographical and administrative area, not a membership of a club. The world is small enough now to see that our differences are historical accidents because we didn’t know each other. Now we can get together again I hope.
Theres nothing wrong with being proud of a heritage or nationality. I’m filled with a sense of “pride” when I think of what the US has provided the world. I don’t have to be a great contributor to the world to be proud of my fellow men for accomplishing things that I haven’t. Speaking of contributions, you could probably be a little more useful to the world not wasting time parsing the meaning of the word proud.
Well, you are right, but jingoism has a purpose. It maintains a homogeneity of opinion. It’s part of the mechanism of power; it came into play, for example, during the systematic extermination of Native Americans. People fail to see through it, though, because it’s such an easy button to push: you’re part of THE GREATEST NATION IN THE WORLD. Yay for me!
You never stop learning. This is the first time I heard the word “jingoism”. Interesting.
The native American was a tribal society that refused to change wit hthe times. This has been repeated through out history as groups move on the Earth. They would not unite, they had no common governement which they lived by. They often waged war on one another and raped and pillaged each other. This society fell because it was weak. I know that hurts and is not politically correct but all societies reach an expiration date….when ours expires….ask yourself will you be strong enough to suffer through the changes…..I think not…so perhaps you should love and support it…considering the chaos that will reign in the interim of a collapse…I am pretty sure I am going to make it…or kill a lot of people before I go….do you really want to contend with that? Well, that is what happens when you do not support the nation you live in..it weakens to the point of collapse and then EVERYONE…has a real reason to complain…usually about the rape and murder and theft.
It’s about having a common history and a shared heritage that you can look back and be proud of where your ancestors came from and thus strive to create a better tomorrow from their example while learning from their mistakes.
You have a very good point. However as an American i see the concept of Proud to be an American not as a statement of what i personally have done, however it is more a generic response to the general anti-American feelings of other nations. Its more of a defense-mechanism or a comeback in an argument then an affirmation of my heritage. You should not feel shame at being German though.
I don’t think many Americans are proud, at least, not anymore.
The song “Proud to be an American” is now played for it’s comedic irony, rather than patriotism. Now that’s sad.
I DISAGREE…. You can be proud to be American. I am Proud about the many things the country I live in has done for humanity, I am ashamed for some of the things we have done as a nation too…
I am a Proud American. If you live in this country you should be proud, glad, happy and blessed you live in the greatest nation on earth, NO MATTER what GW is trying to do to it… He will be gone soon enough and we will start making ammends for the damage.
Be proud or at least stop bashing our country.
BTW, and yes I have and continue to spend countless hours every year helping the less fortunate.
Glad, happ and blessed? Yes, definitely. But why proud? Why limit yourself to that? You wrote that you “continue to spend countless hours every year helping the less fortunate” - That is reason for pride. That makes you a good person. Not only in America, but in this world.
Btw, I don’t want to bash your country. I’m German. Compared with our history yours is Disneyland. I just want to understand you country. Or at least the people living in it.
“greatest nation on earth”? really? greatest by what standard. we don’t have the highest standard of living (that honor goes to the scandanavian countries), or the best educational system (actually ours is one of the worst in the industrialized world) or the most democratic political system (european parliamentary systems are much more representative.
And there areas where we are number 1 …. well not things you really want to brag about. We produce the most pollution per capita. we have the highest incarceration rates, both per capita and in total numbers. We’re the biggest funder of terrorism, death squads, and despots around the world. The biggest military spender by far - we spend more then the next 10 biggest militaries combined and are still getting our buts kicked in Iraq.
I could go on, but if you haven’t got the point it’s because you’re just too dense.
Not that america couldn’t be a great country. but it’s not, not any more. Ever since WWII we’ve allowed our military industrial complex to run rampant and sacrificed our standards of living, our educational system, our social safety nets, and everything else that used to make America a decent place to live in favor of pursuing military supremacy.
I’ll be proud to be an American when America wakes up and lives up to its own hype. the first step in that though is admiting we have a problem, which is exactly what all the jingoistic fake patriotism & propaganda is designed to keep from happening.
You need to get on a plane and head to one of those Scandinavian wonderlands….ever heard the grass is always greener on the other side? Usually where the dogs are shitting…..but heck what about YOU getting off your ass and doing something about it instead of spouting dissent and convincing everyone how crappy we are….I bet you are that guy at work who always bitches and never really gets anywhere…because you are that guy…the resident Bolshevik on the job who no matter who is in charge rebels and tells them how crappy they are….I have seen you before…
I’m proud to be an American but I’m not always proud of what my government choses to do.
I don’t think holding both views is contradictory.
I agree that most people in most nations have no reason to be
proud about a country they just happened to be born in.It’s random.
What you fail to realize is that America is the world.It was
founded and hewed by Swedes,Germans,Irish,French,British,Italians,
Poles,and,the rest of Europe’s immigrants.
I think those people did decide to not let where they came from
define who they were.Those same people made this country…and,
instilled in their children the same ideal.The ideal of freedom.
Every country has it’s own past that it must accept.It’s how
we learn.
America is an experiment in democracy that is constantly on-going and under scrutiny.
We are a nation of idealists and dreamers.
That’s why i can be PROUD to be an American.Because we still
strive to those dreams of our father’s father.
Pride goes well with arrogance
Well, as the comments here illustrate, the concept of “Proud To Be An American” has kind of been drilled into us as a reflex, a sort of “Us Against The Mean Old World” idea.
You can also see this attitude in the Christians of the world who possess a persecution complex, despite all the persecution they have also perpetrated over the course of history.
It’s an emotional response, not a logical one. I feel fortunate to be born American, but proud? Not really. I’m not ashamed of being American, to be sure, although I am horrified and embarrassed at some of the actions of my countrymen and also I am at times proud of the accomplisments of others from America. I don’t in any way internally “own” any credit for great things that I haven’t personally done or agreed to, neither do I “own” culpability for things that I haven’t personally done or agreed to. But you can hardly move three feet in this country without the jingoism erupting, often without the jingoists even being able to rationally explain what they are spouting.
If logic dictated how this planet worked…we would all be
pointy eared Vulcans living in a Star Trek fantasy.
Regardless,emotions will always define who we are as humans.
If a rival sports team fans dislikes our local sports team…we tend to respond in kind.That’s emotion.Is there logic in that?
Are either of those clubs’ fans responsible for a certain amount
of “jingoism”?
Are futball fans not “proud” of their club,even when they had
nothing to do with a teams’ victories or losses?
The world is a soccer field.Not everyone has a Beckham or
a Reynaldo{sp??]…lie to me and tell me that winning another
World Cup isn’t important to you.Then we can talk about national pride.
This reminds me of shirts I used to see: “proud to be black”. A white guy with a “proud to be white” shirt would get killed!!!
Anyways, scope out http://www.gigatribe.com for something cool: encrypted folder sharing for friends!
its the same way in a usa you strugle to feed famly here in the usa i dislike the usa
Yes I agree, the level of poverty among Americans is scary, I came here 5 yrs ago from UK, to marry my now husband. We do many outreach projects to help children in the USA. It’s very sad.
We more than likely dislike you too……go to a country with better social programs…oh wait…..
I’m proud that my ancestors were smart enough to flee their oppressive, classist, and racist, societies of Europe, which now 100 years later are basically the same with a dose of Socialist hand holding. I’m proud that I can be whatever I want in the US no matter where I come from or what my social standing or background. Nobody goes to EU, Africa, Asia to seek freedom from whatever ails their respective societies, they come to the US, they may settler for the EU but they all want to come to the US first. I am proud of that.
“no one goes to the eu … to seek freedom”? might wanna go check some actual statistics because the EU has massive immigration, the same as the US & Canada do. next time check your facts before opening your mouth, it’s a good way to avoif looking stupid.
A nationality, a national culture, is the result of the common mindset of the people. The economy of the United States is the most productive on Earth, and that success leads to a higher standard of living. Most Americans do not struggle to make a living, wondering where their next meal will come from.
The people make the environment of the nation. It all leads back to the people, and this is something that Americans personally can be proud of.
Nations which function poorly, and there are many of them, do so because of their culture, their collective mindset. When the nation is a failure, full of people wondering where their next meal will come from, those people have nothing to feel proud of.
The United States, and the people within, have much to be proud of. Germany, too, for that matter. Nowadays.
The U.S. is currently undergoing internal conflict due to the unpopular Iraq situation, but that will pass. It is temporary, and does not detract from the overall success of the nation.
I hear you. Rarely do I just proclaim that I’m “proud to be an American”, but you will hear me say loud and clear that I am proud ot be Black. I just happen to be a Black American.
Fuck yourself. I’m proud to be an American… help someone in need? Maybe we should stop writing checks to the rest of the world… we help EVERY country in the world by giving them Billions of dollars a year… I don’t hear you all complaining about THAT…
Germany? you’ve got to be kidding… what has Germany done to be proud to be German? What has Germany “contributed” to the world… you’re a taker not a giver as a country and you want to have a say on the world stage…
Go back behind your wall and keep apologizing for what you did during WWII… you owe ALL the world an apology for that, for ever….
Oh yeah… and those non-nazis… You’re welcome from us here in the U.S. for saving your ass…
Hmm, i guess that’s one of these comments, you should let speak for themselves.
Dear Barfly,
Please go and take a history class before you levy your opinion online. Some day, after you have taken the time to learn, you will understand how ignorant and unproductive your statements and views are.
The United States is one of the lowest donors, per GDP, to relief efforts across the globe. The United States extends help when it benefits its interests.
It is not as if we were willing contributors to ending WWII. Genocide and human suffering were not enough to bring us into the fight. It took a direct hit from Japan before we even considered helping Europe.
The latest example of this sort of hypocritical foreign policy can be seen in Darfur. Why have we allowed genocide to continue in Darfur? Frankly, because it is a world away and it doesn’t affect us. Now that it has become more obvious that China, whose growth is seen as a direct threat to the US, is backing Sudan and their mass killings the U.S. is stepping up in order to stop the genocide.
When the killing does finally stop our politicians in the U.S. will tout their contributions and ignorant people across the United States will rally around these incompetent politicians and say “your welcome from us here in the U.S.”
Hey Mr. Soap Box….the USA could not enter the war until the industrial war machine was moving….you need to revisit that same class. I suppose if you knew history you would know at the beginning of the war the army was so pathtically small and without tanks and air craft that it would have been slaughtered by the German Werhmacht which was the greatest most advanced army the world had ever scene…..your information on donations are wrong as well…..but heck you will dismiss me from your soap box…so in the words of the ignorant…KISS MY ASS…
right on! good post
Well I am italian, born and raised in Italy, so i guess I can’t be suspected of being partisan lol.
However, in my country and in Germany we have a few more problems saying to be proud of being born (t)here - well ok, In Italy may be a little less qualms than in Germany, but the fact is that once you have had nazism and you have performed surgeries without aenesthetics (or whatever its spelling) on kids in camps like Auschwitz, you have forever lost whatever possibility of saying “i am proud to be german”.
So, basically, a german is among the least equipped to understand nationality pride. This is why he/she should not even attempt.
This applies also to italians, though since italy has been for 2000 years a divided country, we learned how to manage and replete with creativity also small enclaves - so we never were very worried about nationality pride in the first place: we have never been a whole nation but in the last 150 years. Then, fascism did not help… At any rate we have been invaded and bombed over centuries by hungarians, folks from Austria, ostrogoths, french, spaniards, portuguese, germans, canadians, americans, british, arabs - we never developed terrorism as an answer: we developed the Renaissance.
No nation is immune from errors. When we want a nation to be 100% good in order to be appreciated, we are implicitly stating we can’t appreciate any nation.
The Usa has basically been a force of freedom - those who doubt it doubt it because they were born and raised in this freedom, and think that finding sugar in shops is normal. Before the Usa entered the world scene a defeated nation had to pay the WAR DEBTS - that is, it had to PAY the expenses that the winner had to sustain in order to DEFEAT them, and sugar was a rare commodity (even in peacetime). It was an AMERICAN invention what many today consider a standard, namely that of being REBUILT by the winners.
If you are german, there is no point of saying to the americans that they can be really proud of being “lucky” - their luck has been irrigated with their native blood, and your country has been defeated by them and instead than ENSLAVED it has been allowed to become the BIGGEST economical power on earth after the Usa and occasionaly it even surpassed the Usa. If the american are lucky, you’re at least as lucky as them, bud. And if you think that’s not an american merit, ask your EAST Germany countrymen, who were defeated in the SAME war, but by russians: and got ENSLAVED till as little as 15 years ago.
What difference it can make being defeated by the americans or by someone else is something that a german can understand better than anyone else, so if you don’t understand it, there is little that can be done.
So it is not the americans who “You can be really, really glad to be American. You are lucky.” It is rather you who should say every day: “I can be really really glad that I have been badly beaten up by the AMERICANS. I have been VERY lucky”
ciao
Alberto
Dude, I don’t think you have really read what I wrote.
I haven’t been beaten up by Americans. I AM happy and feel lucky do be born when and where I was born. But I’m not proud of it.
Pride without accomplishment is nothing but meaningless, self-centered narcism.
Alberto-
I didn’t feel enslaved.
And while you’re talking about not being able to understand other nations mindset - you haven’t been walking in my shoes eather.
Hi Tobsy. I found this post while I was Stumbling. Good topic - it’s clearly provoking a response! I have also noticed, as a foreigner living in the States, all the flags n display and national pride. It seems more prevalent here than anywhere else I’ve been.
As a New Zealander, I often feel proud but hadn’t given it much thought before. I guess to me it means I’m proud of the country I was born and raised in. Pride by association, perhaps!
Hello everybody! I’m Romanian…I can’t say that I’m proud of being Romanian, because I don’t think the birth place really matters. I mean it was just a coincidence that I was born in Romania, right? There are other things that should make a person proud of.Maybe there are a lot of people that are proud of their nationality, but….I don’t understand why…
Best regards and keep writing this way:)
Whatever! Who does the world call on when it really needs help? USA. Who developed the concept of rebuilding a nation after it is defeated (not only rebuilding, but creating wealth as that country has never seen)? USA. Who has the most charitable citizens in the world? USA. Who is the first in line to help an ally? USA. Who is first in line to help in the event of a natural disaster? USA. Where does most of the rest of the world want to live? USA. Yes, lately we’ve had our share of idiot politicians. So has the rest of the world. Too bad we couldn’t clone Reagan. A lot of you are needing to brush up on your remembrance of history.
History is filled with examples ( much like Steve’s crackheaded reply, above mine ) of nationalism being used to manipulate people.
When you can’t prove a person wrong, do you always resort to name-calling?
I think the term means proud to be associated with america, or proud of what america is doing, or proud to be part of america… in all of these things I can say, i am happy to live in america, I don’t have to worry about most things that probably 80% of the world worries about, or what I would worry about if I lived there, but I am not at all proud to be a part of what america is doing. I am neither proud to be an american, nor proud of america. It is really kind of shameful if you look too closely…
Free country is a nice thing…the airlines take you where you want to go. Having served over seas in two wars…I am more proud than ever of my country and what it is and what it stands for. Please take your guilty but still suckling from the teet of American ass to another country who will welcome you with open arms and treat your better……oh wait…might as well suck on that teet and be proud..
Being a Good Person or Helpful for some needy people it would proud thing, totally agree with your.
First you have to do such proud work for your Country and for your own Self satisfaction.
It is great to be proud of your country. I am proud of my country - it is patriotism.
You are SO VERY RIGHT! Could not agree more.
I am VERY HAPPY to be a Canadian; not “proud.”
Particular reason not find for being proud to be American, As a nationality i proud to be American but otherwise need to do such kind full work to being proud.
I was already convinced, but that was really cool. Thanks for sharing.
I think you should be proud.
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I am proud to be an American. I am sorry you Germans are not proud to be German. I am sorry your dark history has taken the courage out of your people. My family originally hailed from Germany and I am proud of their history from their barbaric fights with the Romans all the way to their attemps to take over the world in the 20th century. Sure, extermination of the Jews was bad but really..how long are YOU going to feel guilty for that? I think the SS should feel bad but they do not they are psychopaths and most of them are dead. As for accomplishments, I have plenty and have worked my way to success…but all that aside I am PROUD to be an American….in my mind it means something…even if you stand for nothing, angry at everyone, do nothing Europeans are not. I still hold the claim that if not for us in the last 100 years on two occassions you would have a different map today…..not to mention…there is a comming war…one where the Muslims take Europe back…and I will still be proud when you all are asking for our help….AGAIN.
I was already convinced, but that was really cool. Thanks for sharing.
I am not american too, but your are a german, why do you write this!
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